FTF234: Behind the Mic:My Co-MC and Committee Reflections with Leanne Hughes

In this solo episode, Leanne reflects into the world of event planning, MCing, and the fun AND unforeseen challenges that can arise during a charity event (based on her experiences co-hosting the 10x10 Brisbane event last week).

Highlights:

1. Committee Dynamics: The initial stages of planning, the process of narrowing down nominees, and how this committee stood out from typical group projects.

2. Communication Platforms: The value of asynchronous communication, the prominence of WhatsApp, and the advantages of immediate messaging.

3. Roles & Responsibilities: Discovering personal strengths, navigating through responsibilities, and how to tweak and adjust pre-existing templates.

4. Co-MCing Insights: Splitting the MC role, understanding the environment, ensuring audience engagement, and the importance of staying organized.

5. Challenges Faced: Unexpected hurdles like potential noise disruptions, technical difficulties, and overlooked details. How adaptability and quick thinking made the difference.

6. Event Dynamics: Balancing philanthropy with entertainment. Creating a unique event atmosphere likened to "philanthropy meets Shark Tank meets a cocktail party."

7. The Power of Introductions: How adding humor and connection can set the tone for the event and engage attendees.

8. Audience Engagement: Encouraging interaction, making connections, and using humor to lighten the mood.

Mentions:

• Organisations: Altru, Indigenous Futures Foundation, and What Ability. 

• 10x10 Philanthropy

Key Takeaways:

• Preparation is Key: Ensuring you're fully prepped not just for your role but also for potential challenges that could arise.

• Environment Matters: Recognizing the significance of being aware of the surroundings and adjusting accordingly.

• Open Communication: Ensuring there's clear communication between all key players, like co-hosts or other committee members.

• Engage & Interact: How engaging your audience and encouraging interaction can change the dynamic of an event.

Mentioned Resources

• "The Two-Hour Workshop Blueprint" (Book)!

FTF233: Inside three facilitators minds: What goes on (and why we love models!) with John Norcross and Tricia Conyers

Join host Leanne Hughes as she delves deep into the mind of a facilitator with guests John Norcross and Tricia Conyers from the "Every Little Model" podcast, this episode offers a genuine conversation exploring the intricacies of facilitation, sharing personal experiences, challenges, and models that guide their work.

What You Will Learn:

• The journey of becoming a facilitator: How John and Tricia began leading group conversations and meetings.

• The multifaceted roles in a workshop: From mindfulness to handling logistical aspects like air conditioning and room design.

• Key facilitation models:

  • Leanne's "SPARK Framework" from The Two-Hour Workshop Blueprint

  • Tricia's "Nine Dimensions of Engagement" emphasising the power of contrast in facilitation activities and debriefs.

• The art of balancing: How to juggle structure and flexibility in facilitation.

• John's experience emphasizing the importance of adapting to group needs rather than rigidly sticking to a process.

About Our Guests:

John Norcross

John is a change leadership professional who works at the intersection of human centered design, organizational effectiveness, strategy, and implementation. His 25+ years in consulting have taken him from Canada, to the UK, South America, the Caribbean, and to the US working across a range of industries, from energy and chemicals to life sciences and the public sector. 

John spent over a decade with Evolve Partners, an implementation consultancy, as a geography leader and as SVP for Accounts. He also co-founded a boutique change agency, BridgeOne LLC. Over the last couple of years, he has volunteered as a community change agent in Wisconsin, focused on advocating for public schools as well as diversity and inclusion efforts. He is also the co-host of the Every Little Model podcast, which focuses on exploring the models and frameworks we use to make sense of our organization and our world. 

Connect with John Norcross on LinkedIn

Tricia Conyers

Tricia Conyers is a leadership coach, facilitator, trainer, and podcaster. She helps individuals and teams to unlock their full potential and achieve breakthrough results. 

Through a combination of individual coaching, hybrid professional development programs, facilitated in-person experiential events, and her Every Little Model podcast, she helps leaders to think differently, recognize and leverage leadership moments, and develop the confidence and capabilities they need to succeed in today’s fast-paced business world. 

• Learn more about Tricia’s work here https://islandinspirations.co/

• Connect with Tricia on LinkedIn

• Check out her online program: Engagement Matters

To continue the conversation, join over 2,200 global facilitators in the free Facebook group, "The Flip Chart". Reach out to Leanne on LinkedIn or via email at hello@leannehughes.com. Enjoy the episode!

FTF232: The Power of Frameworks + How to Gift Wrap Your Expertise with Leanne Hughes

How do you design fast? You create an underpinning framework! 

In today's episode of the First Time Facilitator podcast, I share why I frameworks SO MUCH, and some ideas on how to create your own.

Key Takeaways

• Gift Wrapping Information: Organising and packaging information in a way that's digestible and actionable.

• Overcoming Fears: You don't need a PhD or decades of experience to create a useful framework.

• Case Study - Pivot by Jenny Blake: A framework for career decision-making featuring Plant, Scan, Pilot, and Launch.

• Creating Your Framework: The story behind The 2-Hour Workshop Blueprint book and the SPARK framework (Setup, Power-up, Activities, Review, Keep) for workshop design.

• The Utility of Frameworks: Beyond business and personal development, frameworks can serve as a general tool for clarity in any context.

• How to Create Your Own Framework: Practical tips, including using brainstorming buddies like ChatGPT.

Mentioned Resources

• "The Two-Hour Workshop Blueprint" (Book)

• "Pivot" by Jenny Blake

• ChatGPT

• "The Power of the 2 x 2 Matrix  (Book)

• Alan Weiss’s Framework for Sentient Strategy

Listener Challenge

Are you currently using frameworks in your work or life? Do you find them helpful? If you haven't tried, take a moment to think about how a framework could help in your current projects. Share your thoughts or your own frameworks with Leanne @leannehughes

Join us for more insightful discussions and practical advice on future episodes. Subscribe now, so you don't miss out!

FTF231: Nancy Marmolejo on Navigating Workshops with Quiet Confidence and a Sense of Belonging)

I love jumping on The Flipchart Facebook group to see where members are hosting their workshops. My guest today, Nancy Mamolejo, hosts her workshops overlooking the Golden Gate bridge, and she also brings amazing ideas and energy into her sessions, including her emotional support kit.

Tune in today, to hear us discuss:

1. Creating a Sense of Belonging in Workshops

   • Strategies and tools to foster an environment where everyone feels like they are a valued part of the conversation.

2. Going Beyond 'Tick and Flick'

   • Delving deeper than superficial diversity initiatives and truly embedding inclusive practices in the organization.

3. Standing in Your Value

   • Recognizing and appreciating your unique contribution to the workspace and the importance of every individual's perspective.

4. Workshop Structure and Participant Awareness

   • Insights into how Nancy designs her sessions to be most effective and how she ensures she remains attuned to participants' needs and responses.

5. Embracing Self-Worth and Belonging

   • The transformative realization that "I belong here" and understanding the significance of self-worth in professional settings.

About today's guest:

Nancy Marmolejo is passionate about helping organizations “walk their DEI talk” by moving them from abstract theory to people-to-people interactions. Using tools such as the DiSC Assessment, communication skills training, and leadership development models, she creates a safe space for people to transform on personal and professional levels. 

With over 10,000 hours of experience as a coach and facilitator, her mission is to amplify the voices of underrepresented groups in the workplace, and to transform workplace culture so belonging and inclusion are the norm for all.

Find out more by going to TalentAndGenius.com
Connect with Nancy on LinkedIn

FTF230: Turning 40 - Leanne’s 12 Rules for Life

As you know, I'm here to help you design fast, deliver strong without stress. 
That's hat is in the form of workshops, right? 
But today I'm going to be talking about designing life in general.

I'm celebrating and reflecting because I turn 40 this Thursday.

What an honour: Every day above ground is a great day.

Disclaimer: I'm not an Olympic gold medalist. I haven't climbed Everest.  I'm just a type of person who likes having a crack at life, looking for cool opportunities  and  treating life as an experiment. 

And so I wanted to share some ideas today that reflect how I think about life design.

I've summarised these in Leanne's 12 Rules for Life... And what I'm excited about is in two decades, or even in two weeks, I might prove my own rules wrong. The beauty of life is in its ever-evolving nature. 

Are you approaching a watershed moment in your life, whether it's a milestone, you've had a significant life change? It might be nice for you create your own 12 rules!
 How do you like to see the world? 

Here are a sneak peak of Leanne’s 12 Rules for Life:

1. We’re all gonna die: A reminder of our impermanence.

2. If you're feeling like a fish out of water, find a new pond: Adaptability is key.

3. Shake hands with your heroes, they probably have sweaty palms, too: We’re all human at the end of the day.

4. There is no glass ceiling: Limitations are often self-imposed.

5. Your clicking reveals your calling: Listen to what resonates with you.

6. Live regionally, work globally: Embrace the vast opportunities the world offers.

7. Be like Tom Cruise in the moments that matter: Show up and give it your best.

8. Find the pattern interrupter in your life: Break monotonies and spark creativity.

9. If you don’t have permission, get permission: Advocate for your own desires and goals.

10. Share your work in public: Be open and transparent in your endeavors.

11. Double click everyday moments: Find depth in daily occurrences.

12. Real wealth is discretionary time (Alan Weiss): Time is our most valuable resource.

What do you think? Do any of these rules resonate with you? Let me know! Tag me on socials, send me a message, or email hello@leannehughes.com

Links and Resources:

• Don Miller’s Hero on a Mission

• Kathy Oneto: Sustainable Ambition

• Jenny Blake: Free Time

• Alan Weiss

• Live in the regions! Check out Move to More

FTF229: Dancing with Workshop Disruption with Jeff Skipper

In today's episode, I'm delighted to introduce our guest, Jeff Skipper. Jeff and I have been colleagues for the past couple of years, sharing insights in our growth cycle mastermind group. We've connected virtually every two weeks and had the pleasure of meeting in person during a memorable gathering in Hawaii, part of Alan Weiss's community.

About Jeff Skipper

Jeff Skipper is a recognised expert in accelerating change with over 25 years of experience. He has worked with renowned clients such as IBM, Suncor, Goldman Sachs, and the Salvation Army, helping them achieve remarkable results in their strategic transformation efforts by infusing complex change with a motivating mission.

Jeff possesses a unique talent for creating impactful activities and workshops. He excels at breaking down complex challenges and reengineering them into practical solutions. Exciting news for our listeners, Jeff is currently working on a workshop booklet that will feature his top 30 change activities.

During our conversation, we delve into the essential aspects of driving and leading change. Jeff underscores the significance of visible leadership, especially in today's virtual landscape where meaningful connections can be a challenge. We also explore opportunities for meaningful in-person connections and how they contribute to the success of change initiatives.

Jeff is the author of the insightful book, "Dancing with Disruption." 

In this podcast episode, you'll learn:

• The role of emotions in leading change

• Practical strategies for engaging people during times of disruption.

• How leaders can inspire trust and commitment in their teams

• The significance of consistency in messaging,

• The contagious nature of both resistance and enthusiasm in organisational change.

Quotes from the Episode:

• "It's hard to generate that level of excitement until you're out there, shaking hands with people, patting them on the back, and telling them they're doing a good job."

• "Even if your organization's life depends on it, not everyone's gonna get on board. So what do you need to do?"

• "It's important to give people space to connect. When we have an hour to just talk and unpack things, that's where we really start to connect and build levels of trust."

• "You're trying to engage people on an emotional level. Yes, I need to help them build new competencies to navigate a change, but I'm trying to keep a positive viewpoint around what's going to happen."

• "If I dip my toe in the water, it's going to be safe. Again, the role of leaders is to create that safety for people."

Links and Resources:

• Jeff Skipper's Website

• Jeff Skipper's Book: "Dancing with Disruption"

• Connect with Jeff Skipper on LinkedIn

FTF228: On Air with Sophie Scott: Broadcast Journalism Techniques, and Emotional Regulation for Workshop Success

In today's episode, we explore the intricate emotions that facilitators experience right before a workshop – a whirlwind of excitement, nerves, and anticipation.

My guest today is the award-winning TV journalist from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, Sophie Scott OAM. Sophie's multi-faceted career has transitioned her from a household face on TV to a well-renowned speaker and educator, with a prime focus on mental health.

Dive into our conversation as we unravel Sophie's personal journey, discover her pre-workshop routines, and delve deep into her experience with burnout. It's a candid, open conversation about the realities of mental well-being, the importance of self-care, and the pivotal role that authentic communication plays in our lives.

What You Will Learn:

• Sophie's transition from a journalist to an advocate for mental well-being and a sought-after speaker.

• The personal story of Sophie's encounter with burnout, which she faced while in the public eye.

• The "Spotlight Effect" – A mechanism to center oneself and focus on the audience while facilitating.

• Embracing Discomfort Outside of Comfort Zone: Recognizing the value of feeling uncomfortable when stepping into unfamiliar territory, as this can lead to growth.

• Physical Reactions to Anxiety: Even when well-prepared, your body might still show signs of anxiety, but recognizing these signs and continuing to move forward can be beneficial.

• Facilitation vs. Journalism: Both roles involve extracting information and insight, and the techniques used in journalism can apply to facilitation.

• Tips and ideas on how to host engaging panels or events.

Quotes from the episode:

• "You want to always make it about the audience and not about you."

• "When you're feeling burnt out, the last thing you want to think about is adding more things to your to-do list."

• "It's actually part of the process of growth is to step into those feelings where you do feel uncomfortable because that's how we grow."

• "No one would have any idea. And it's the same if you're standing up to do facilitating, you know, whether you've done it once or 100 times, if you're nervous or anxious, the audience will not know."

About Sophie Scott OAM

In addition to an extensive career as an award-winning medical TV journalist for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, Sophie is a professional speaker and educator with expertise in mental health.

She has an extensive presence on social media, has been an invited speaker at the World Congress on Positive Psychology, has written two books (Live a Longer Life (ABC Books) and RoadTesting Happiness (Harper Collins), and has won major awards for her journalism and medical reporting including a prestigious Eureka Award

She is an Advisory Board Member of the Australian National Mental Health Prize and sits on the advisory board on stigma at Australia’s National Mental Health Commission and the University of Melbourne’s Contemplative Studies Centre.

She is an Adjunct Associate Professor at the Notre Dame University Medical School lecturing in science communication.

Sophie’s mission is to help people help themselves, using evidence-based science and her own personal journey.

She is an ambassador for Bowel Cancer Australia, Pain Australia and is a patient reviewer for the British Medical Journal.

Sophie is a highly sought-after keynote speaker on topics such as preventing burnout, managing your mental well-being during times of change, the science of high-performance habits, and how to use neuroscience to stick to new habits and overcome unwanted ones.

Her talks and workshops help people take better care of their mental health through science-backed techniques so they can build emotional resilience, maximise their potential and thrive at work and at home.

Links and Resources:

• Sophie Scott's Website - A central hub where you can find all of Sophie's content, including links to her social media platforms.

• Connect with Sophie Scott on LinkedIn

• Insight Timer and Balance App: These apps are mentioned in the conversation, suggesting they might be tools for personalization or well-being.

• Continue the conversation when the show is over, join The Flipchart free group on Facebook

• My new book is out: The 2-Hour Workshop Blueprint: Design Fast. Deliver Strong. Without Stress.

• Grab it, then Write an Amazon review!

FTF227: Workshops that Deliver: Focusing on What Truly Matters with Brendon Baker

In today's episode, I chat with Brendon Baker, a change leader I've had the pleasure of knowing for over a year and a half. Our professional relationship has grown from friendtorshop to active collaboration. 
We discuss the core of his workshops, how to deliver real value, and his personal experiences with business growth.

About Brendon Baker:

Brendon is dedicated to helping Change Leaders achieve tangible results. He's been at the helm of over $10 Billion in projects and programs, and from these ventures, he's gathered key insights:

1. Change is tough, so it needs to be worth the effort.

2. Simple solutions often yield the best results.

3. Traditional methods and 'best practices' don't always translate well into practical situations.

Brendon is the author of "Valuable Change" and "Creating High Value PMOs". He lives outside of Canberra, Australia.

What you'll learn:

• The story behind Brendan Baker's business growth and his journey towards helping leaders.

• The significance of understanding the "reality" in corporate scenarios.

• The essence and application of workshops in creating change.

• Perception of Last-minute Work: Reframing that last-minute preparation might be seen as scrappy or inadequate. 

• The value of being in communities to find your next career role model.

Quotes from the episode:

• "I've come to call that a point of arrogance... they think that what they're delivering is right and ultimately they don't know."

• "If you focus on what truly needs to matter, then you don't have to do as much work and you can focus on shifting the dial."

• "Workshops are for teaching people new things and for collaboratively solving problems."

Join us as we navigate the fascinating world of transformation, and the intricacies of creating meaningful change with Brendon Baker.

Links and Resources:

• Visit Brendon’s website

• Connect with Brendon Baker on LinkedIn

• Continue the conversation when the show is over, join The Flipchart free group on Facebook

• My new book is out: The 2-Hour Workshop Blueprint: Design Fast. Deliver Strong. Without Stress.

• Grab it, then Write an Amazon review!

FTF226: Stamp Out Boring Workshops with Leanne Hughes and Prina Shah

Welcome to a podcast swap! I was a guest on the delightful Prina Shah's podcast, Ways to Change the Workplace recently, and the episode had such wonderful reviews/feedback, I thought I'd bring it onto this feed!

• What are some common mistakes that workshop facilitators make that lead to boring workshops?

•  How can workshop facilitators create a safe and inclusive environment where all participants feel comfortable sharing their ideas and opinions?

• What are some creative approaches to workshop design that can help break up the monotony of traditional lecture-style presentations?

Here’s Prina’s intro:
Today I chat with my friend Leanne Hughes all the way in Brisbane, Queensland. Leanne is a thought-provoking entrepreneur with an upcoming book called the 2 Hour Workshop Blueprint and it is great – I have been an early reader and have user-tested it myself in the workshops that I deliver!

Leanne talks about her years of experience as a facilitator and what she has learnt from that, we cover: 

• Common mistakes that workshop facilitators make that lead to boring workshops.

• How important it is to engage workshop participants from the outset, and some effective ways to do so.

• The role technology plays in creating more dynamic and engaging workshops.

• I ask how important is it to have a clear purpose and desired outcome for a workshop, and how can facilitators ensure that participants are aligned with these goals?

• We discuss ways to keep energy levels high throughout the workshop, particularly during long sessions.

• How workshop facilitators can create a safe and inclusive environment where all participants feel comfortable sharing their ideas and opinions.

• Some creative approaches to workshop design that can help break up the monotony of traditional lecture-style presentations.

• Some common myths about what makes a workshop successful, and how we can dispel them to create more effective learning experiences.

• And listen in to Leanne’s answer to my question: if you had a magic wand, what is one way you would change the workplace? 

About your host: Prina Shah

Prina Shah is a Global Coach, Consultant, Trainer and Speaker with 20+ years of experience in developing Executives, Leaders and Teams. MHerspecialty is in developing your people and working with you to optimise your organisational cultures.

Links and Resources:

• Listen to Prina’s podcsat, Ways to Change The Workplace

• Connect with Prina on Linkedin

• Continue the conversation when the show is over, join The Flipchart free group on Facebook

• My new book is out: The 2-Hour Workshop Blueprint: Design Fast. Deliver Strong. Without Stress.

• Grab it, then Write an Amazon review, and I'll invite you to two webinars (value $299 each)

FTF225: World-Class Speaking Dreams: My Pre-Conference Anticipation with Leanne Hughes

In today's episode, your host Leanne Hughes delves deep into her journey as a participant and her experiences leading up to a world-class speaking conference in Hobart. She also touches upon the significance of mindset in the world of speaking, facilitation, and beyond.

She also touches upon the significance of mindset in the world of speaking, facilitation, and beyond.

What you will learn:

• The importance of setting the right pre-conference expectations and the art of crafting a powerful pre-event experience.

• How the location of an event can significantly shape a participant's experience and perspective.

• Dressing the Part: The Psychology of Becoming a World-Class Speaker

• The value of provoking thought, over disseminating information

• What does being "world-class" mean to you?

• What I get ready before I attend an event, and how I decide to choose my accommodation.

About your host: Leanne Hughes

Leanne Hughes is based in Brisbane (Australia), and is an award-winning businesswoman, speaker, author and podcaster. She works with leaders around the world, to help them create engaging everyday experiences to rapidly create business results, and her work has been featured in Forbes, CEO World Magazine, and Smart Company.

Links and Resources:

• Check out the workshop hosts: Andrew Griffiths and Keith Abraham

• Jenny Blake's TED conference episode: 10+ Conference Networking Strategies with Alisa Cohn

• "The Referrable Speaker" by Michael Port

• Review my new book, The 2-Hour Workshop Blueprint on Amazon 

• Send me an email: hello@leannehughes.com or connect on LinkedIn

Your invitation: The 4-Week Workshop Sprint

Let’s spend four weeks together, going beyond the pages of The 2-Hour Workshop Blueprint to make your workshop the best, damn, thing ever, and something you’re incredibly proud to showcase, host, and share with the world.

This is a live program starting on the 7th of August, 2023, limited to 16 people, where Leanne offers personalised support and feedback for your program, to get you producing great workshops, with a bit of x-factor thrown in!

Find out more about The 4-Week Workshop Sprint

• My new book is out: The 2-Hour Workshop Blueprint: Design Fast. Deliver Strong. Without Stress.

• Grab it, then Write an Amazon review, and I'll invite you to two webinars (value $299 each)

Episode 46: Learning is not a stand-alone event with Kerry Brocks

Listen to this episode from First Time Facilitator on Spotify. Happy Christmas eve to all of you, and I hope you are taking the time to relax with family and friend's and also recharging for a big 2019. Today's guest is Kerry Brocks, and she is the CEO and Founder of the Institute for Learning Professionals.

Happy Christmas eve to all of you, and I hope you are taking the time to relax with family and friend’s and also recharging for a big 2019.

Today’s guest is Kerry Brocks, and she is the CEO and Founder of the Institute for Learning Professionals. We met up over a coffee in Brisbane around May this year, and I remember our infectious conversation. We could not stop talking about the struggles that facilitators have, and how it’s so important to support the community of learning professionals, so that we stamp out boring and stifling workshops forever.

I walked back to the office after meeting with Kerry feeling super excited to know that we’re on the same war-path.  I invited her on the show to share with you her experiences as a facilitator, and the great work she’s doing for facilitators through the Institute for Learning Professionals.

About Kerry Brocks

Kerry is the Chief Executive Officer & Founder of the Institute for Learning Professionals (ILP). She strongly believes in actively involving participants to develop skills and knowledge, keeping them focused, interested and willing to learn in an interactive and highly productive workshop environment. The ILP offers a range of blended learning programs and qualifications based on the latest research and techniques.

Kerry has worked in various management training positions over the past 12 years, including Education and Development Manager for the Australian Institute of Management (Qld and NT), National Learning and Development Manager for BDO Kendalls Chartered Accountants, and as the Network Training Manager for Metway Bank (Qld, NSW and Vic). She has vast experience in designing, developing and conducting training initiatives across a range of industries and for all levels of staff.

Resources mentioned in this episode

• The Institute for Learning Professionals

• Connect with Kerry on LinkedIn

What's on in First Time Facilitator land?

• We are 3 episodes away from releasing the half century of First Time Facilitator episodes and I’ll be celebrating by hosting a meeting up in Brisbane on Friday 18 January. If you want to join in, shoot me an email hello@firsttimefacilitator.com or a DM in Instagram @firsttimefacilitator.

• Want to start a podcast? Come along to my workshop in Brisbane on 13 January: 2019: The Year you launch your podcast.

• Finally, if you want to connect with listeners following the show, join our community on Facebook it’s called ‘The Flipchart’. Once you’re in, please introduce yourself, where you’re from!

Like this show?

• Please leave me a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so I can thank you personally.

• Tweet your number one takeaway from this episode to Leanne

• Tweet your thanks to Kerry.

Episode 27: Being comfortable (with feeling uncomfortable) with Leanne Hughes

Listen to this episode from First Time Facilitator on Spotify. Usually on the show I interview amazing facilitators, speakers and leaders but I'm going solo for today's episode. This is the third solo episode I've recorded and these ones are usually spurred on by questions I receive from listeners.

Usually on the show I interview amazing facilitators, speakers and leaders but I’m going solo for today’s episode. This is the third solo episode I’ve recorded and these ones are usually spurred on by questions I receive from listeners.  The question this week was from a colleague and it was this, “Leanne, how did you get the confidence to speak in front of large groups?”There's a bit to unpack in that question. Its different for everyone.  Interestingly, this question is about confidence; not about developing the skill.

In this episode you’ll learn:

• The real opportunities I had that lead me to feel more confident speaking in front of large groups.

• How I compare training for a marathon with becoming a better public speaker

• How I found opportunities within roles I held to practise speaking in public more often

• Why time on your feet matters (and how you find those opportunities)

• My driver for doing things differently in front of an audience

• The joys of being a wedding MC

About our guest

Leanne Hughes is the host of the First Time Facilitator podcast and is based in Brisbane, Australia. She works in the field of Organisational Development. She loves to shake up expectations and create unpredictable experiences and brings over 12 years’ of experience across a variety of industries including mining, tourism, and vocational education and training and believes anyone can develop the skills to deliver engaging group workshops.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• My Pecha Kucha speech about running a marathon

• My marathon coach, Pat Carroll

• The Jordan Harbinger show:49: Alex Banayan | Why Mentors Are Important and How to Get One

Like this show?

• Please leave me a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so I can thank you personally!Let Leanne know about your number one takeaway from this episode! (or, leave a comment below)

Episode transcript

View the First Time Facilitator podcast transcript of Episode 27.

Episode 8: Storytelling works! (Because no one's ever asked to see a Powerpoint presentation twice)

Listen to this episode from First Time Facilitator on Spotify. In this First Time Facilitator episode, internationally bestselling author Matthew Dicks shares why storytelling so important, and how telling stories is not simply sharing a series of events; it's the manipulation of emotions.

In this First Time Facilitator episode, internationally bestselling author Matthew Dicks shares why storytelling so important, and how telling stories is not simply sharing a series of events; it’s the manipulation of emotions.

It’s a skill that can be taught and he shares some of the techniques he uses to engage his audience, whether they're 10 year old kids, or politicians.

In this episode you’ll learn:

• What a story is (and what it isn’t)

• The details you should leave in your story and more importantly; the details you can leave out

• How you can become more memorable by sharing things that are vulnerable, amusing or embarrassing

• That it’s important to assume that no one wants to listen to anything you have to say

• How to start collecting your own stories by reflecting on everyday moments

About our guest

Matthew Dicks is the internationally bestselling author of the novels Memoirs of an Imaginary Friend, Something Missing, Unexpectedly, Milo, The Perfect Comeback of Caroline Jacobs, and the upcoming Storyworthy: Engage, Teach, Persuade, and Change Your Life through the Power of Storytelling. His novels have been translated into more than 25 languages worldwide.

When not hunched over a computer screen, Matthew fills his days as an elementary school teacher, a storyteller, a speaking coach, a blogger, a wedding DJ, a minister, a life coach, and a Lord of Sealand.

Matthew is a 35-time Moth StorySLAM champion and 5-time GrandSLAM champion. He has also told stories for This American Life, TED, The Colin McEnroe Show, The Story Collider, The Liar Show, Literary Death Match, The Mouth, and many others.Heis also the co-founder and creative director of Speak Up, a Hartford-based storytelling organization that produces shows throughout New England.Matthew is the creator and co-host of Boy vs. Girl, a podcast about gender and gender stereotypes. 

Resources

• Matthew Dicks

• Grab his new book! Storyworthy: Engage, Teach, Persuade, and Change Your Life through the Power of Storytelling

• Video: Life lessons learned while pole vaulting told by Matthew Dicks

• Video: Homework for Life by Matthew Dicks

Transcript

Read the full First Time Facilitator transcript with Matthew Dicks.

Thoughts on the episode? Share your comments below!

First Time Facilitator podcast transcript (Episode 7)

Listen to this episode from First Time Facilitator on Spotify. In this First Time Facilitator episode, Sue Johnston from the Artemis Group shares practical facilitation advice from an introvert's perspective. She talks about how she 'accidentally' wound up as a facilitator after working on strategies to make weekly teleconferences more effective.

Preparation: It's the security blanket for facilitators with Sue Johnston

Leanne: Our guest today is very clear about what drives her in her work and it's all about making you better. This theme has played out through her career, previously as a nurse, and with her work in both the public and health sectors. Now she's an adviser, facilitator, and leadership coach, and her job title is both Executive Director and very useful person of the Artemis group. She is on the line, across the ditch in New Zealand. Welcome to the podcast Said Johnston.

Sue: Thank you so much Leanne. What a wonderful introduction.

Leanne: You're very welcome. I would sa,y every time I interview a guest on the show I hear that they've come from a range of backgrounds, and industries. Yours is in nursing and policy work, so I'm curious as to how you entered the world of facilitation.

Sue: I suspect I entered the world of facilitation in much the same way as other facilitators, and that's almost being pushed into it or it just happens. It's not like I said, "Right. I'm ready to be a facilitator now." I look back. You've made me reflect on -- So this is about 10 years ago now. In my reflection I can see that it started with things like running a project where we had a teleconference of people from around the country, and they needed someone to run the teleconference.

I don't know if you've ever experienced those sort of situations where there's lots of silence, and no one's really sure about how we managed the process of what we do, and I can see that that's where I cut my teeth if you like on facilitating. It was basically because I wanted an outcome from the meeting. I wanted a good outcome from the meeting, so I thought, "Well, I will lead this, and let's just get on with what the purpose of this, us getting together is." That's how it started really.

Leanne: Where did you look for sources or information on getting those outcomes on your teleconference? Yes, you're right, I have been on those phone calls where you put a question out, and no one really responds. I would love to know what strategies you have for that environment.

Sue: How did I learn? For a start, I learnt by experiencing both good and bad in person, and teleconference type meetings. I thought, "God. Why is the person doing it this way? Why don't they do it this way?" Then you say you see someone do it well. So you go, "That was good. I could try that it."

For a start, it was very much around just by example seeing how other people did it. At that stage I wasn't going, "Right. I'm going to be a facilitator." I wasn't naturally going to look for those sort of tools and techniques. I was still very much embedded in my analytical and my policy process environment. That was my key thing, and this was a sideline of how we get the work done. If that makes sense.

Leanne: That's interesting, because you mentioned in one of our earlier chats that you are a bit of an introvert, and so did going through this process give you some tools to be more confident to then make the step of running workshops in front of groups? How did you make that progress in small steps?

Sue: How I made the progress, I think it always takes whether you're an introvert or an extrovert a bit of courage to stand up, and say you're going to facilitate. For me I was very aware that I had to have my security blanket of preparation with me. I learnt how to -- If I was prepared, and I had thought through what I needed to be able to do in the meeting, that helped, and my key tool that I used every time I facilitated is that I spent time before the facilitation, quite a bit of time investing in understanding what my client needs in terms of the purpose of the day.

Once I'm clear with that I can manage whatever goes on in the meeting. There's a mental process for me. The more prepared I am, and the more I understand the purpose of the day, then the better it runs. I have to say in that process it's probably not a surprise to facilitators to discover that sometimes they want you to facilitate something, and they are not clear about the purpose of the day. They're not clear what they actually want. They just want something. By doing that process with them upfront, we get very clear about the purpose of the day, and I make it clear back in my proposal in my brief to them that this is the outcome you have said you want. This is the purpose of the day, and that's what I'll be aiming to give you. Is that right?

Once I have that, the introvert in me has a process, has a thing to put the whole day around, and that makes it so much easier for me.

Leanne: Yes. I have been in situations where I've been approached to run something, and they have said, "Hey, look, we just want a team day. We just want to get along better." What kind of questions do you ask to really dig down, and get to the root of the problem or what they're really wanting to achieve?

Sue: Very good question. If I see them in person, all the better, but if not, it's a phone call, and we start by saying -- I start with really big questions like, "Why do you want this day?" It's things like, "We've go to redo our strategy."Or, "We've got to get people together in a room, and we're a bit afraid of how they will, but they need to," or something along those lines. There is the types of questions I ask are, "Why do you want this day?", "Imagine it's the end of the day. What would make you think this day's being worth it?" I get them to imagine what it's like. I get them to imagine that, "Yes. This has been a good day." I say, "What has happened for you to feel that way?"

That's usually quite a good way of getting them to focus on what they want out of us, and therefore who they need in the room, and how much time we might need, and all those other sort of questions that we ask after that.

Leanne: I guess you get that information, and over the 10 years of being a facilitator, do you have a bucket of resources or are certain models that you always lean on? Do you have any favorites?

Sue: I do have favorites. If they're wanting to do strategy, et cetera, I might go to is a strength based approach. In fact, all my facilitation is based on strength based work. In this case it's using Appreciative Inquiry. It's a usual strategy day. We'll say, "Let's look at our strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats." In the strength based approach that becomes strengths, opportunities, aspirations, and results. What that does, it takes their brain to a much better place to do the strategy, and the dreaming.

Without fail I have to say, the outcomes of the day, they love. They're surprised where they get to, the conversations that they have. Strength based approach would be definitely one, and that using Appreciative Inquiry. That's a big one for strategy.

Leanne: I've run some strengths workshops previously, and it's all about maximizing your potential, and really doubling down on what makes you unique and great. The feedback I sometimes get in those workshops is, "What do I do about my weaknesses?" Do you get that question a lot? What do you respond with?

Sue: [chuckles] That reminds me of a strategy day I did with with a board of a Tech company, and one of the members, even though I had requested that they put away their laptops and stuff continued to look at, and really wasn't engaging. We got to the part of the day where we were doing the aspirations, and it's all about giving them a future scenario, and saying, "Imagine that you're reading, that you've done this in the Financial Times. What does that look like, and what are your clients saying?" He just went, "It's saying that we're bankrupt, and we've gone under."

Leanne: Wow.

[laughter]

Sue: I went, "Okay." He is determined that we go there, and I said,"What happened for it to get to that point? What did you do? What did your company do?" I still made him go back, and think about what was happening in their world. What happened in their company to get to that point. That was a bit of a -- Some people would go, "Why aren't we doing it? If we don't understand our threats, and we don't understand this, we're not going to get there."

Actually, once you've got your aspirations, and you go to your results, and you have a look at what you need to stop doing, you'll identify your weaknesses. You'll say, "We can't carry on doing that in this way." It's a different way of getting there, and it keeps the brain in this lovely place of still going out to solve problems, and still being able to get the stuff out of the strategy there instead of going down holes. You have seen that right?

Leanne: Yes.

Sue: You've seen someone starts a, "Remember that time that that happened?" and everyone goes, "Yes." Suddenly they're off, and you're, "My goodness." It's not going to help them get to the purpose of the day which is to look at something new and different.

Leanne: That's a really great example. How do you steer them in the right direction if it does -- if there is a turning point in the room, and the mood changes? What do you do as a facilitator?

Sue: I call it. I notice it, so I just say, "I'm noticing that there is a bit of hesitancy in the room." If they've got a particular issue, I'll say, "Let's have a board." I use things like questions boards or holding pages. I can go and put their questions up there, because it's important to get it out and put it up there. Then I'll come back, and I'll say, "The purpose of the day is this. If we go there, I'm concerned we won't reach the purpose of the day," and then depending on the size of the group and who the client is there may be a follow up discussion just with the with one person, and saying, "You've got options here. What do you want to do with it?"

You can't ignore it. Otherwise it just just gets out of control.

Leanne: That's right. So you're recognizing it, and calling it at the time is probably a really great lesson learnt.  If you ignore it, what can happen?

Sue: [chuckles] If you ignore it, and that has happened to me in early days, because I didn't have the confidence to do that. What happens is your day gets hijacked by some frustrated or angry individuals in the room who perhaps don't want to be there, or who perhaps are actually a bit afraid of what might happen. Don't trust the process for whatever reason or they have been made to come or whatever it is.

That can be hijacked, and you can end up having the sort of meeting which I've been a participant of which is that you don't achieve what you think you've come there, and and taken a day off work to to do, and that just ends up bwing frustrating to everybody.

Leanne: Absolutely. I guess the confidence to call it is a really important skill. In your observation what are some other really critical skills for facilitation?

Sue: The one that I mentioned earlier is to be able to think of the fact that you have -- it's not just the facilitation on the day. That you actually start the process, and get the purpose really clear at the start. I would say doing your preparation, and being clear about the purpose would be the thing that drives everything else.

Another key skill would be your ability to read what's going on in the room, and pick up the temperature. You'll know when you are having your -- If there's small group discussions, if there's not much noise coming as opposed to a lot of noise. You know what what's actually going on.

To react and change depending on what's going on. In my head I might have sorted what I think decisions might be in what order they might go, but then when the group comes together I may need to change the way that I do that. I still have exactly the same purpose clear in my head, but I may need to change the way that I do it. I may need to put bigger groups together or smaller groups together or mix them up or play some music or something.

Leanne: Just like a trigger point-

Sue: Yes.

Leanne: - to change the mood. When you run sessions you facilitate to a variety of different audiences, what do you actually change when it comes to pitching to a different type of audience? Do you change anything at all? Or is it just the way that you deliver the material? Does the material stay the same?

Sue: I do mix up the material. What doesn't change is the process to get to the purpose, and the outcome in terms of asking the questions that I ask like what do want out of the day? That remains the same. What I put together is customized for who's in the room, so if it's a group that know each other well, that's completely different from a group that don't get together or you've got a group of stakeholders who've never been together on their own before.

The types of things that I might do in that situation are different, and the way that I might design the day will be different than an in-house team, for example.

Leanne: I really like that you keep referring to the preparation, and I think you should write a blueprint on this. I would find it really useful.

Sue: I'm happy to share. After I have been to my initial meeting with with a client I do a note back to them, and I use the same template which talks about first of all what I do, and it makes very clear, because often, there's a lot of them invisible stuff that goes on for a facilitator in terms of preparation and design of the day. I make it very clear in what they're buying, and they're buying my preparation design and planning as well as the facilitation of the day, and follow up and potentially.

Then I outline in dot points what the current situation is, so what heard I repeat back to them, "This is the situation you're currently in. This is the outcome you want from the day, and the purpose. This is the number of people that will be in the room, and how long we've got, and this is my fee." They get a one page, two pages max back which I say, "I want you to check that I have got this right. Have I got this right in terms of your current situation, and what you want out of the day, and are you saying yes to this?"

That then leads into the the next part of the process which is the co-design of the work with them. I'm happy to share that. Happy to share that template.

Leanne: Yes, great, I would love to. Awesome. If you link it to your website we can pop a link on our show notes to that template.

Sue: Sure.

Leanne: Just the questions that you ask could be really useful. Talking about the group of stakeholders you mentioned before when we're talking about diverse audiences, and there is some people that are coming to these workshops, and they've never met each other before. How do you get them to start working together? Do you use a particular icebreaker? How much time do you give them to start talking and engaging in the workshop?

Sue: I don't know if you find this Leanne, but often my clients want a lot done in a short space of time.

Leanne: Yes. [chuckling] I think that's universal.

Sue: Yes. Whatever I can put, and whatever preparation I can do before they'll get in the room I will do. I will send things besides the agenda which I send to everybody before the meeting. I will send a note to people. If I think they're going to be particularly tricky, I will have conversations with people or I will give them the opportunity to talk with me or to the various participants in the room if that's what they need. They often don't. They just want to know what's going to happen in the day.

My agenda says, purpose of the day at the top. It then has an outcome for each session. What the result of each session is going to be? The timing for it, so they can see really clearly how it all relates back to the purpose. That helps before they come into the room. If they don't know each other, we can do something like just an introduction.

The particular icebreakers I use, I sometimes around clearing the space which is a neuroleadership one which is making sure everyone's brain is ready to come in so we talk about turning off the other apps that might be on. Actually going through, and talking about what those apps are that are open. In terms of I'm thinking about a paper I've got to get finished by the end of the day, I'm feeling nervous about that, but I'm willing to put that aside, so they they do this very quick process where they clear it.

For people that don't know each other at all, I sometimes use the different things that are in the room. Like the situation that we're in, so they might be if they're in a room that has lots of books I'll get them to pick a book that they think is the title of their life or something.

Leanne: Nice. I like that.

Sue: It just depends. Or if they were a song what would they be? It really depends again on the group. There's some groups that there's so much potential to turn it into a threat response to do anything like that. It's just about introducing them to the person next to them and that's it for a start.

Leanne: I know I've been in environments where the facilitator would say, "We are about to do an activity," and you can see people get a little bit anxious about, "What kind of icebreaker are we doing this time?" and [crosstalk]

Sue: yes.

Leanne: - those environments, so I think it is important to really recognize the characteristics of your group, the dynamics and which icebreaker, if you do use one will be most appropriate, and how came out or open up with each other?

Sue: That's true, and that brings me to the groups that I that I'm really lucky to facilitate for CQ; Collective Intelligence. What they do is they -- because they meet three times a year. They're from all different industries, ages, and stages in their world, and when someone new comes into their groups they do this really cool exercise where we get them to draw a line on a whiteboard with one end being the day they were born, and the other end being today, and then they basically put dots or lines above and below the line to highlight the key things in their life that have created who they are now. The things above the line are the positive things that have happened. The things below the line have been the tough stuff that has happened. That's a really nice way of doing us a succinct this is me, but that's in a group that there's -- they're building high trust, and they know that they get together in this high confidentiality. I wouldn't do that in one of my strategy days with a team that don't know each other.

Leanne: Can you tell us a little bit more about the CQ, your collective intelligence group that you have in New Zealand?

Sue: Yes, sure. Collective Intelligence have about 200 members, and teams of about eight or nine and see CQ's purpose is around growing the effectiveness of leaders, and using using diversity, and different ways of thinking about the will to get that. For example, we might put together --People in the group might be from a construction industry, the wine industry. They might be a C.E.O., they might be a new entrepreneur with a start up tick, and I think that's part of why the magic happens. What they do is they sometimes focus on someone's business, and that person will have a key question for their business that we'll all go in and facilitate -- our facilitator session around interviewing maybe their clients, maybe their business partner, people in their business. It might be about them personally as a leader, it might be about them as a person in terms of how they show up at work and at home. It can be anything.

It's the most wonderful landscape to facilitate, and because the people have already signed up for vulnerability. The members are all there because they want to know their blind spots. For me, it's just such a privilege to facilitate in that sort of group, I have to say.

Leanne: It sounds like a really great group, and I'm wondering if we have an equivalent over in Australia. I will have to look into it.

Sue: I'm not sure. I don't think so. CQ and the way that it operates that it keeps the groups going because some of them are in their five years or so. I don't think so. I think the closest would be mastermind groups.

Leanne: Yes. I've heard of that concept.I notice that you mentioned vulnerability when you were talking about CQ, and that you're also a Brene Brown certified Daring Way coach. Can you share with us what is does that actually mean? What do you cover in your workshops?

Sue: During work stuff it is as a huge part of what I bring to my work now either directly talking about it or what's [inaudible 00:22:59] the background for me. It's around understanding vulnerability and courage, looking at issues around authenticity, how shame shows up in our world, and I'm talking about the leaders in the leadership organizational development space. About professionalism and what stops us doing, and vulnerability which is about risk uncertainty, and emotional exposure, and how we deal with that it in a work environment.

My work is around those sorts of issues which is big.

Leanne: It's pretty deep.

Sue: Yes, it is.

Leanne: How did you -- I guess it is part of the certification. Do they teach you how to work with people that discover things for the first time in your workshop, and it's a bit of revelation, and they don't know what to do with that information? It could get quite heavy. I guess you're nursing experience would help then. How do you work with someone that's really just discovering -- It could be the shame or just information about them they didn't know before they walked into your room.

Sue: With care, and with understanding that I'm not working in a clinical environment with them. That it is not therapy, and so very much in the leadership space. It is around getting the concepts of what it means to them as leaders. In our certification process it's very much about us being very comfortable, and having gone through our own work to do the work, so it's very much about us understanding the concepts, and having a facilitation practice that we can put that into.

The facilitation training that you do to use Brene's research assumes that you have a practice already, and that you understand the issues around how to keep a group safe ,and work with them, work with leaders. In terms of how I deal with that, I use it in the same way. I wouldn't, for example, for effect, we've got another facilitator and I are doing a weekend workshop for women around authenticity and leadership and how they show up at work. We won't be going straight to shame. [laughter]

We won't be going there. We'll build up to that. The first things I'll be looking at are there values and trust? Then moving into how they show up at work, and talking about their arena at work, and the armor they need to take off, so there is this beautiful use of metaphor in Brene's work which people connect with.

Again, it's just in the way -- Well, I say just. It is in that you care for the person to get there, and make sure that they don't have a threat response, and then can contribute and participate in the work.

Leanne: I'm just curious, what if -- I don't know if you have run this workshop before, but I'm interested in hearing what are the barriers that you do see about people not being authentic in the workplace?

Sue: The authenticity place, we've all grown up, in fact we do it as facilitators. There will be identities that we want people to see [unintelligible 00:26:39] like we want to be seeing as a confident ,competent, can do it, take care of them facilitator. We want to [crosstalk] Yes. We want to be that. That is an identity we want to get . The unwanted identity is, I don't want them to see that I am peddling so hard under here. I don't want them to see that it's just been a shame trigger for me, and I'm wondering what the hell I do about that? They have got all this unwanted stuff.

Somewhere in between these identities there is us. The authentic Leanne that is the facilitator or, so in the room it's the same thing, whereas a leader it's the same thing. It's about recognizing what gets in the way of our authenticity, and sometimes it's those identities. Sometimes it's our own shame about what we are -- keeping us small and not wanting to show up. Sometimes it's the fact that we just don't have the capacity to deal with that uncertainty. We won't go there.

The types of conversations you can have with leaders are absolutely around that stuff. Getting them to reflect on and understand what is their own story around -- that gets in the way of their authenticity, be it shame, be it not wanting to put ourselves out there, wearing armor.

Leanne: I was reflecting on that right now, because even during this podcast, not this episode in particular, but when I first started out, I had come from listening to a podcast. Really professional ones where the interviewer had been doing it for decades, and I expected myself to swoon in, and be the same way. [chuckles] That's an identity I forced upon myself, but I think this is about keeping it real, and enjoying the conversation, and just learning from the people that I'm talking to. Keeping it real.

Sue: Yes, absolutely. The authentic Leanne.

Leanne: That's right, as someone who does stuff up, but can have a laugh.

Sue: Exactly right. I think that's exactly what for a first time facilitator is the toughest thing to do, but the authentic you is the one that you need to bring to the room. Whatever it takes as much as I'm talking about the prep, and whatever I do. Figure out for you what is the authentic facilitator.

The authentic Sue is different from the authentic Leanne in a way, but what we bring, and what we show up is the stuff that people will connect with.

Leanne: That's right, and different groups might take out different strengths from either of us as well.

Sue: Yes, absolutely.

Leanne: You mentioned the word threat as well quite a bit in our conversation. Does that link into David Rock's work, the SCARF theory?

Sue: Yes. That's the other part of my work, and that is around coaching. I'm a result certified coach with the NeuroLeadership Institute, and that's David Rock's research where he takes the latest neuroscience, and applies it to leadership and what that looks like, and what I love about that work, and how it fits with my daring way stuff is that there is actually quite a lot of common threads, but one has come from quite a sociological model, which is Brene's work, and the other has come from our brand. What he, and that work, points out is that if we go into a threat response, which we're much more wired to do, then we can't do the thinking and the problem solving, we can't use that part of our brain. It becomes a lot tougher to do.

He has this wonderful SCARF model, which I run through and make sure when I'm facilitating that I am addressing these things in the way that I design, and do the work. He points out that the five things that can lead to a threat response, status; people's status not being recognized, and for some people this is far more important than others. It can happen if something uncertain happens in the room. If you suddenly have someone going off on a tangent, or you suddenly change something from the agenda, for some people that will SCARF them, that will make them go into a -- I wasn't expecting that. My goodness, what else is going to happen?

Leanne: My gosh. I was in a boot camp yesterday just on that, and there's just this boot camp, 6:00 in the morning. We're assigned at our stations, and then the personal trainer is like, "Sorry, you're meant to be in group B. I stuffed up." She was really, "Hang on. I'm meant to be here. This was the station you assigned me," and I recognized that. I was like, "That's so interesting. She wants that certainty." She thought she was right, and then very simple mistake, but it did put her offside.

Sue: Absolutely, yes. As soon as it happens, we can't problem solve. We can't contribute in the same way that we could if we weren't SCARF'ed. Status and certainty. Te next one is autonomy. That I feel like I have some choice in the matter, that something that's important to me, I can make a decision about that. The way to bring that into a facilitation might be if the group have all the stuff they want to do, you might say, "You can choose between doing A or B. Would you like to do this in smaller groups or bigger groups?" That gives a sense of autonomy. There's still something they have a choice about.

The next one is relatedness, and that is that there is a sense that we are all in this together, and that I am part of this, and I'm not being isolated. If there's something going on in a group over here, and there's someone over here thinking, "I'm not participating in that. I don't feel like I'm part of that. I'm isolating." We can definitely go into a threat response around that.

The final one is F; fairness, and that is what's going on is fair. That's a pretty strong one for me, I have to say. If I think something's not fair, then I get a bit up in arms, and an example from yesterday actually is I've been watching a nurse's blog. I'm interested. There's a paid talk going on on the moment, and a couple of nurses had set up a Facebook page called Nurse Florence. The most wonderful nursing stories that come out. The nurses are telling these stories about their work, and they put up a thing yesterday to say that someone had been trying to shut them down, had gone onto Facebook and say this shouldn't -- that Nurse Florence wasn't an actual person, so they shouldn't have this website. The fairness thing in me is strong. That's just not right. These guys need to be able to tell their story, and it's important, and too bad for whoever is wanting to shut them down.

In terms of a facilitator in SCARF, keeping people away from a threat response is making sure when you design and run the day, that you are acknowledging each of those things and in fact, moving them into a reward state where they will use their brain. Giving them a lot of positives about working together, and making decisions, and that they're bringing knowledge to the room, for example, will acknowledge their status. It's not just about the threat response, and not getting there. It's also about acknowledging that to keep them in their lovely moving toward space.

Leanne: How do you find out which -- out of the S-C-A-R-F, how do you find out which ones the strongest for you? Is there an assessment, or do you -- because I was listening to what you were saying, and I think I'm autonomy, but is there a quiz that we can do? How do you figure it out?

Sue: I know in my coaching notes there is a -- in what I use with my coach clients, there is a SCARF, "Let's Think about it" model. It's pretty simple in terms of just going through and defining which each of them are, and you going, "I can see that in me, and I'm more this, but status is not a big one for me, but it can be sometimes. It's a great one to reflect on, and also then to notice when you have been SCARF-ed. Like, "I can see that there's an autonomy thing here. I need to have some choice. I can see that I've been SCARF-ed."

Leanne: Or consult. I'm going to start thinking about that this week. See where things trigger me. You've mentioned Brene Brown and David Rock. Are there any other books or resources that you could recommend to someone that's starting their facilitation journey?

Sue: I sure can. There is a book that I found once I moved from just occasionally running meetings or teleconferences, and someone actually asked me to facilitate, and I had that word connected with whatever I was going to do. I found a book called Facilitation Secrets. It's by an American guy called Michael Wilkenson, and it was like, "Oh my goodness, this is just the best." The thing that I still carry from that book that I learned very early was getting clear about the purpose of the day, and then using a lot of meta communication through the day to make people clear where you are in that purpose. You're saying, "We've just done session one. The purpose of that session was this. It ties into that. We're now moving to this part. The purpose of this, and how it attaches to the bigger purpose," to give people confidence. Again, it comes to SCARF doesn't it? A certainty around where they are and what happens. That book there for me was a bit of a game changer in terms of giving me the tools to make this rather shy, introvert, feel that I could confidently step forward. It was pretty important to me in those early days.

Leanne: It's probably a bit of a dog eared version at the moment, or have you-- [crosstalk] the latest version?

Sue: No, it's an old version, and it's just covered in -- I've got so many of those sticky things sticking out the side, those tabs. There's too many, really. [laughs] There's just so many of those little tabs in the book.

Leanne: [unintelligible 00:37:31] highlight. Well, we'll have to link to that book in the show notes. Hopefully it's still out, and being published. Maybe one day I'll get to interview the author of that book if it was so influential.

Sue: Wouldn't that be great? I think it would definitely be out there, because he has a company called, I think it's called Leadership Strategies. They have a website, and they offer courses, and I know they offer courses in Australia. Definitely there's an opportunity to use his work.

Leanne: We'll check it out. It's been so wonderful hearing from you today about your journey, the models that you use, the vulnerability, SCARF, books that you recommend, and really all leading back to how you prepare for your workshops in terms of the questions that you use, and finding out what the purpose is. Finally, where can people find you if they'd like to hear more from you?

Sue: Look, can I just say thank you Leanne for the opportunity to talk with you?

Leanne: You're very welcome.

Sue: The fact that I had to reflect, and think about what had been going on. If people want to find me, I'm on LinkedIn, and I have a website, which is artemisgroup.co.nzd in New Zealand, and I'm on Twitter, although I'm a pretty bad tweeter. LinkedIn is a pretty good way to find me.

Leanne: Awesome, and just a quick question. Final question. Why did you decide on the name Artemis?

Sue: Because I'm into a very -- from about 15 years ago, I was very much into goddesses. I thought woman should be -- all women are goddesses, even if they don't know it. I wanted a goddess name for my company, and I chose Artemis, because she is a warrior goddess, but she's also known as a nurturer. She's got a tough, can get out there and do the work, but she's also a nurturer of plants and animals, and she's the sort of patron goddess of midwifery.

Leanne: Perfect. That's sounds exactly like you. [laughter]

Sue: Yes.

Leanne: What a perfect match. Look, Sue, thanks so much again.

Sue: You're welcome. Thanks Leanne.

Episode 2: It’s not about you: Diversity and Inclusion expert, Teagan Dowler shares why listening is the #1 skill of a facilitator

Listen to this episode from First Time Facilitator on Spotify. Welcome to the second episode of the First Time Facilitator podcast. Teagan Dowler is the Founder of The BCW, Treasurer of the Diversity Practitioners Association, Author of Rules of the Game and Organisational Development and Leadership Coach.

Welcome to the second episode of the First Time Facilitator podcast.

Episode 2 First Time Facilitator podcast with Teagan Dowler

Teagan Dowler is the Founder of The BCW, Treasurer of the Diversity Practitioners Association, Author of Rules of the Game and Organisational Development and Leadership Coach.Teagan has worked across a range of industries including Civil Construction, Iron Ore, Coal, Financial, and Health in the areas of Organisational Change, Human Resources, Learning and Development and Human Behaviour Coaching and Psychology.She is the author of Rules of the Game: Women in the Masculine Industries, which provides recommendations from her own experience and those of over 50 women and men to achieve success in traditionally male-dominated industries.As a leader in the area of diversity, inclusion and leadership, Teagan and is regularly asked to comment on industry developments. She has been quoted in The Australian House of Representatives, featured in a range of magazines (including OK! Magazine, The Collective, CLEO) and interviewed on live breakfast radio for 4BC Brisbane and ABC Radio Gippsland.

IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL FIND OUT ABOUT:

• How an interest in nutrition lead her to a career in psychology and human behaviour

• Her strategies for answering questions in your workshop (when you’re unsure of the answer)

• Why flexibility and listening are critical strengths of a great facilitator

• Why you need to embrace fear and step up in front of a workshop to share your wisdom

• The importance of authenticity - particularly when things don't go to plan in the training room

• How organisations have changed in their attitude and response to Diversity and Inclusion initiatives and approaches

RESOURCES

• Websites: The BCW and DCC Jobs

• Social Media: The Blue Collared Woman (Facebook) and TheBCW (Instagram)

• Find Teagan on LinkedIn.

• Book: Rules of the Game: Women in the Masculine Industries

TRANSCRIPT

Leanne: Thanks for tuning into episode two of ‘First Time Facilitator’. I really appreciate your support. I'm also interested in hearing what you think about the show, so shoot me an email any time with your feedback. I'm at firsttimefacilitator@gmail.com, or leave a review in iTunes. Let me know if there are specific aspects of facilitation that you'd like to learn more about, or feel free to recommend guests that I can interview on upcoming shows. I met our next guest through another facilitator, and she focuses in on the diversity, and inclusion space. I have to say I think she is one of the most relatable people I've ever met. She has an effortless, and natural way of making you feel really great after you chat to her. And I think that's her unique facilitator superpower. So, let's hear from her in episode two.Our guest has worked across a range of industries including civil construction, iron ore, coal, financial, and health in the areas of organisational change, human resources, learning and development, and human behaviour, coaching, and psychology. She's the author of Rules of The Game: Women in the Masculine Industries, and this book provides recommendations and how to achieve success in traditionally male dominated industries. She's the founder of the Blue Collared Woman known as the B.C.W; the Treasurer of the ‘Diversity Practitioners Association’ as well as an organisational development, and leadership coach. Welcome to the show, Teagan Dowler.Teagan: Lovely, thank you so much for having me today.Leanne: It’s so great to have you here. Our audience may or may not have heard of you. I'm curious to hear a bit about your career journey, and what brings you here today.Teagan: Yeah, it's a funny one Leanne. I grew up in a really small country town down in Victoria. And I actually originally wanted to be a nutritionist; funnily enough. So when I was going through school, I then realised the reason I was interested in nutrition was actually all around the psychology. Why did people have certain approaches to food? And I was interested in understanding the relationship in the mental aspects around that - then that led into psychology. Loved learning about psychology, but when I went through psych at uni, the new wave of positive psychology was not actually in vogue at that time in university.And as a young 20-year old I just thought that's a heavy industry to go into. You're dealing with the darker side of human nature, and I wanted to have a little bit more a lot of experience before really going into that space. So maybe it's something I'll do later down the track. But I then thought, “Oh well what's another avenue? I'll segue the psychology into business.” And started looking at organisational behaviour which then led to a masters in human resource management. Finished that and thought, “Well what industry do I want to go in to?” At the time my dad had built a very good career in the mining industry. So I've been around the culture, I understood it, I liked it for its frankness and its directness, and thought, “Let's give it a go”.Leanne: Wow! And did you get to travel to mines around Australia?Teagan: I've been to a lot. So WA, South Australia, Victoria, New South Wales, Queensland. I think the only states I haven't worked in is Northern Territory and TassieLeanne: Okay, so your dad had worked in the mining industry.Teagan: CorrectLeanne: Did he prepare you for that first day out on the mine site?Teagan: Prepared is a really interesting word. So it's a very dynamic industry and the sheer experience of circumstances that you can find yourself in are varied. I suppose in terms of the preparation aspect, it was an understanding of the culture, and I'd grown up in that environment. So in essence, I was prepared for what to expect. But in terms of some of the unique experiences and circumstances you find yourself in probably not. Which is hard for him to be able to prepare a young female to handle those scenarios when he himself may not have experienced it.Leanne: Yeah, that's right. That's really interesting, and we’ll talk a bit about diversity later on. So when you're at the mine site you're working in a HR role?Teagan: It's more of a broader strategic pace. So we work mainly with mine leaders in regards to a range of operational discipline aspects. So leadership is one of them. How they look at their planning, their production is another aspect, how they communicate as well. So it's HR/strategy/operational.Leanne: I guess one of the things I notice from you is that you have a very natural way of presenting. And I'm wondering if that was hard over the years and do you sort of reflect back on previous workshops, and from years ago and think, “What was I doing”? Or do you actually just always been that natural and authentic in front of an audience?Teagan: That's lovely of you to say; thank you.You always do a bit of a self-critical reflection to think, “Gosh! Am I coming across the way I'm hoping I am”. I think for me, what has enabled me to be the facilitator I am today is probably watching other facilitators. And from a very young age, I always got involved in public speaking. And the fear that that brings is somewhat addictive in a way, scary upfront, but when you finished, it's really exhilarating. And I quite like that feeling of conquering something that you were nervous about. And it was through watching other facilitators, and other speakers in the techniques that they would display, and how they would talk; that's what's enabled me to take pieces from that and build my style today.Leanne: You talked about having fear. Is that something that you still go through when you deliver workshops?Teagan: Yeah, definitely. I think every group I have a little bit of a nervousness in my stomach because you don't know the people necessarily. It's a new group of people, age or time. And with the variety of people that you have, you've got to be on your toes. So for me personally, there's always the feeling of gosh, will I actually be able to answer their questions, will I be able to manage the group dynamics affectively, will they be interested in the content, or more so, how can I make the content interesting and relevant for them? So yeah, I'm always still nervous.Leanne: So yeah, me too as well. I think it’s easier when you deliver the same workshop a few times but then when there’s a new audience, it throws you back and you really need to prepare again. So what are new strategies when working with groups? Do you have anything in your back pocket for those experiences?Teagan: Yeah, I think what's helped me the most is definitely know your content. And I would suggest knowing your content beyond just what's in your resource guide, or what's on the slides, or the handouts that you're giving. Because the real richness can come through conversations more so than that content. And it's been helpful to be able to tap into external knowledge, or external understandings of research, or stories, or real life application that can help you in the moments where you think, “Oh gosh! Maybe I'm losing them, or maybe they throw a curveball question.” In that moment where someone is asking you a question and you think, “I have no idea what to say or how to respond.”Leanne: Do you have any strategies for working with that one that you can pass on?Teagan: My go to is, “That's a great question. What do you think?” And then I open it up to the group or the individual, yeah. And sometimes saying, “Look I'm not sure.” can be very useful as well because the way I set up my sessions is that I'm not the be all and all. I'm not the Oracle. I don't have all the information. This is very much a collaborative learning approach where I learn from the participants just as much as I hope that they will learn from me.Leanne: Yeah like that it's a two way sort of learning curve. So do you think there is a difference between being a facilitator compared to just being a trainer. Are they two different skills, or are they one in the same?Teagan: That's a good question. It's actually something I probably haven't thought about, and it might come down to semantics in a way. In my perception of a trainer is very much around I give you information. This is the information, and we run through in a very structured way. For me, the concept of a facilitator is a lot more as you said that two way, give and take. We're all here on the learning journey to use a cliché.Leanne: So in your observation, what are the skills of a great facilitator?Teagan: I can probably speak for myself around my perception of great. Because everyone will have a different version of great, and certainly a comfort level of what feels great when you're facilitating, or what you might observe. And certainly energy is something that is important, and body language aspects. So that very simple concept around openness, and engagement, small nuances around how you use your body when you’re facilitating, and engaging in conversation is very powerful. I also think one of the important aspects as a facilitator is listening just as much as it is talking, and giving information.Because we're probably all been in that circumstance where someone's asked a question, or they've made a statement. And you can see the facilitator didn't really get it and move on, and give an answer that might not actually align with the person. And that's a risk of turning someone off when that happens. So I think not only the concept of energy no new content, but also very much listening and observing what you people need. And maybe it's that flexibility aspect as well.You are going with the mindset of this is how it's going to run, this is what I need to say. But there's been times where you need to go off script because you can say there's a need in your audience, and that's going to give them better value than what you had originally anticipated. So that flexibility, tapping into print, your knowledge around what you're talking about is really useful.Leanne: So flexibility, we need to listen, and be adaptable. It sounds like a pretty exhausting profession. How do you feel at the end of a big training day?Teagan: I’m wiped to be honest. I'll be frank about it. It then makes me think around, “Geez, am I an extrovert or an introvert?’ Because they say that when an introvert is being quite energetic it's exhausting and gosh, in some of my hardest workshops which funnily enough have been the diversity and inclusion workshops which we’ll talk about. I've had after a full day of that I’ll go home, and go to bed. Because I'm so tired of just the process, and the mental fatigue around keeping up with a very challenging topic for some participants.I honestly feel shattered after a day, and I think is it just because I'm standing up all day or… But I think it's all about that sort of worry management, and always having a Plan B, C, or D that you could go to.Leanne: What is the best advice that you could give someone? To a technical expert or someone that works in HR who sits in that room and thinks, “I could actually get up and deliver something. But I don't really have that confidence.” What advice could you give to them?Teagan: Embrace the fear. That's a mantra that I try and live by. You just sometimes have to think, “What's the worst thing that can happen?” If you have knowledge that is important and someone else will benefit from you sharing. So have confidence in that, or faith that you can deliver the content, and that you will do it well. And if you walk away, and you think, “Oh I could have done that better”, that's a great learning opportunity. So really I think, what's the worst thing that can happen, and just go for it.Leanne: That's right the sun will still set and rise the next day.Teagan: It’s exactly right. Even as a kid I used to have this weird thing that if I had something scary to do during the day which was usually school sports or school swimming. I remember waking up in the morning and thinking, “Next time I'm in bed tonight, it'll all be over. Time is a finite thing, and in a few hours the scariness will be done.” So it's the same concept as an adult.Leanne: In the lead up to a workshop say it's a speech or workshop with a big client for example. How much work or prep time do you put in? So it's a 2-hour workshop. Do you really have a ratio, or how do you…?Teagan: It really depends on how comfortable I am with the topic, and whether I've done it before, what the client is expecting, very much depends upon the info on delivering.Leanne: Tell us the time where things didn't go so well in a training workshop. What happened, and what did you learn from that?Teagan: Yeah, look it was actually quite recently when I was delivering an inclusive leadership workshop. And as I alluded to before, it can be a topic that's quite confronting for people. Because we start talking about concepts such as self and identity, and how our identities lead to different outcomes such as the identities of others leads to different outcomes for them. And we are in a time at the moment where a lot of organisations are having these conversations which previously have been more social broader conversations, and then they are now coming into the workplace, and putting additional pressures on leaders.And one of the leaders in these workshops was having a difficult time being able to… not understand the concept. But it was misaligning with his existing value set. And what had happened was one of the other participants had said something which had upset the other participants. And it was about lunch time I think when this one participant came to me and said, “Look Teagan, I'm just gonna let you know that I'm gonna leave”. And I thought, “Oh my gosh! Oh no, what have I done?” Initially immediately I went to what have I done, I failed, I haven't been good enough in this. And so there was this little conversation in my head going just be calm, listen, don’t over-react. And so I started asking him questions to understand what was going on.And we talked around his discomfort with what the other person had said. And I didn't challenge him in that moment for his desire to leave. I gently asked him to think about it. Maybe go for a walk around, cool down a little bit, or have a drink, decide if he wants to come back. He did do that and he said, “No, I still want to leave.” And I said, “That's fine, completely understand.” So he went and I thought, “Oh dear, that's terrible. I've never had anyone walk out of a training session before.” And so went back to the group, carried on. They were all fine. I explained that we all need to be respectful about what we're saying in a group forum, and finished the session off.That night, he actually called me back. He sought out my personal number, and he called me at about 7:00 at night. And I thought, “Oh gosh! Oh no! What happened here? Is he completely upset?” And what was really lovely is that he actually said, “I've had a think about it, and I understand now what you were talking about, and I probably didn't need to leave. But I did at the time, and I'm just want to let you know that it wasn't anything you did…” So that was a really interesting experience because as a facilitator, you're always conscious of delivering value to each participant, and value is a different thing for each person. And I felt that I had failed for this individual at the time. And then you're also conscious around your brand as a facilitator as well.And being able to make sure that you’re delivering what an organisation is wanting you to deliver, or a team, or manager; whoever it is. And I guess the thing that I learnt from that experience was in a way, you've got to make sure as a facilitator that you are managing all those different needs of the group as much as you can. But if you find that at the end of the day you can't for whatever reason, that's okay too. And you're not going to please everyone all the time. I suppose if you come from as a position of integrity for yourself, and you know that you've done all that you can do. And if you reflect and realise, “Oh, I could have done that better than that”, that's a learning. That's all you can really do.Leanne: That's yeah really good advice. I had a similar situation, and I mulled over all evening. I was thinking, “What could I have done better?” And I sort of went through the similar process as you, and I asked a few questions, or let's have a break. And yeah it sort of just come down to personal accountability, and being respectful. We’ll move on to the topic of diversity. What compelled you to write your book, ‘The Rules of the Game’, and what's their response been to the book?Teagan: Yeah, ‘Rules of the Game – ‘Women in the Masculine Industries’ was written back - gosh, I think it was about two years ago now. And it came from the desire to share the stories, and share them in a truthful manner. So when I first joined the industry, there was not a huge focus on diversity. There was a few women in mining, women in construction groups, and what not.But they seemed quite external to organisations. Organisations will send women off, but they weren't really integrated into how we do business. I started actually the ‘Blue Collared Woman’ or the BCW as a blog. And it began very much around me just sharing experiences of myself and others and some strategies that we've all used to try and work our way through it. And it started to gain popularity. And I thought, “Well how can we reach more people, and how can we really give a handy resource for people in the industry and women for to learn from other women, but also for men to understand experiences of women in an unfiltered way?”And so I started the writing process, and it took about two years, two and a half years to collate all the interviews, and the research, and many weekends spent on the computer. But I wanted to write it just to really help other women. When I was telling people that I was writing this book, one of my mentors actually said, “Don’t do it”. They told me not to release it because they were very worried that it would isolate me from the industry, and cast me as a troublemaker.Leanne: ...Which is completely unlike you Teagan. Absolutely not your brand; troublemaker! I've really enjoyed reading it. I found the steps very actionable and practical because you tell real stories of people working on site. I found it very useful, especially as I was new to the mining industry, really had no idea. And going through that was just lovely to see I guess in practical solutions, and how to navigate your way through it.Teagan: Oh great!And that's really sort of the focus of the audience was people who were women who were new to the industry, young, coming in perhaps maybe, or those that had changed from one industry to another because they're awesome subtle nuances in the traditionally masculine industries culturally. And coming in with eyes open, and learning from the experiences of other women is really helpful. It puts you on a… I guess a few steps ahead really to be able to be successful.Leanne: It's like I've got this secret book. I know exactly what I need to do. You spoke about diversity ten years ago, and how people in roles were external to companies, and now we see a lot of diversity advisors. It's a real focus. It’s about KPIs, and business strategies. On the ground have you seen much of a change in terms of cultures in those industries?Teagan: I would say yes. The mere fact that we're talking about it in industry is a really big thing. Even numbers, it's different. So being able to walk into a workplace and see a woman out in the workshop, or even driving trucks, and operating machinery now; it's changed. It's no longer the rarity. It's more common to start seeing women in those roles. So a lot has changed very much. And in fact I was just talking with Alina, and she was explaining that she's got two workshops. That one has about 40 percent diversity, one has ten percent different locations. And she said, “It's so evident when you walk in to those workplaces. There's a different vibe, there's a different culture, people are more receptive to different ideas. It's changing, it really is.Leanne: That’s so encouraging to hear. What you think the greatest opportunities are in the diversity space, in the next one to three years. Where do you think we can grow? I'm talking about Australian industries in particular.Teagan: Yeah, I really think it's important that we don’t forget the conversation about everyone in the workplace. So a lot of organisations are really focused on KPI diversity metrics. At the moment we focusing on smaller subsets of characteristics. What I am finding now though is that… and in fact someone this week said to me, by doing that we're actually creating exclusion for the majority of our employees. And when you think about it workplace is the majority of our workplaces are males. And so it's really important that in the conversation around diversity and inclusion that we very much have a conversation around how is inclusion beneficial and incorporates the male population in our workplaces.Leanne: So those conversations that you're talking about; being inclusive. How does BCW help clients, or sites, of projects embrace or is it through workshops coaching variety of mediums?Teagan: All of the above. We do a range of things from helping organisation set strategy through to diversity inclusion audits. We do inclusive leadership workshops we do coaching. There's a range of I guess different services and support that we can offer really depending on where an organisation is at in terms of their maturity along the D&I curve.Leanne: Do you know a lot of companies saying, “Oh we’re not ready for this yet”, and if so what's your response to that?Teagan: Good question. I would say two years ago it might have had a few companies in that space. Now most organisations realise that they have to be in the game. Yeah, because society is changing, the pool; the talent pool that they'll be looking for is also highly competitive as well. So if they're not seen to be an employer who is really open and inclusive in in their workplace, they will get left behind of talent. And there's actually a great organisation called DCC who actually screen employers on their female supportive work environments. But in general those organisations are also very good around the whole inclusive characteristics. So you can actually go onto that website, and see which employers have been endorsed.Leanne: We’ll put those in the show. Interestingly with the increase of technology, we find a lot of companies are relying on online learning and technology to really spread a message. I know that you offer online courses. Do you think it will replace the face to face experience, compliment it? Where do you think it sits in terms of learning, and embedding culture change?Teagan: I may be unpopular on this one perhaps. My answer is I hope not to be honest because of the feedback that I'm currently getting certainly from the industries that I'm working in is that online just does not hit the mark particularly with your operational space. So having the ability to whip out say a smartphone, or a log in via a link on a website; that works for some employees. And so I do think there's a space for online training.But in terms of being able to hit others, you've got to always consider what's the best medium for being able to connect, impart, information, and also create a shift. I think that face to face space is ideal, it's irreplaceable. But there is a space sometimes when you might need to do online training. So it's around understanding what's the outcome that you wanna achieve from that training and that content you wanna impart, and then deciding what medium’s gonna be best.Leanne: And I think the value in running these workshops is not only the delivery, but I guess each participant sharing their information...Teagan: AbsolutelyLeanne: …and their storiesTeagan: YeahLeanne:  You wear so many hats. What keeps you driven, and how do you wake up in the morning, and balance all these different roles that you have?Teagan: Sometimes I wake up in the morning and think I'm not balancing these roles very well to be honest. And I have to remind myself to make sure that I'm not spreading myself too thin. But really you've got to find your passion. And for me, diversity and inclusion has been this burning passion deep within me that I want to see change. So it's more than just a job for me. I love it, and I'm motivated intrinsically by what we are trying to achieve. So that helps immensely. But yeah, you got to watch you don't put too much on the load.Leanne: I bet there's so many exciting opportunities waiting for you, and it's hard to say no sometimes.Teagan: Thank you, I'm trying to learn how to in a way that doesn't disappoint anyone, or lead me to run myself down.Leanne: Thank you so much for being on the show. Where can people find you?Teagan: They can jump online. So my website is The BCW, or they can jump on to the social media channesl. I'm on Facebook; the Blue Collared Woman, or Instagram. They can search thebcw.Leanne: Perfect! We'd loved hearing you tips, and tricks, and strategies for becoming a first time facilitator, and thank you so much again.Teagan: It’s been such a pleasure. Thanks for having me Leanne.Thanks very much for tuning into First Time Facilitator. If you like the episode, please share it with your mates, or subscribe to the podcast feed in i-Tunes.